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View Full Version : Marry Seth/Violet - [SPOILERS]


Ruffiana
08-10-2005, 08:19 PM
I have an alt that I’ve been playing where I intentionally try to keep my charm as low as possible. Violet’s been a great sport about this and generally rebuts any attempts at flirting. I’d gone through each option just to see what the fail message was. However, I made the mistake of clicking on Marry Violet at the start of a new day and was shocked to find that I had lost all of my turns. :shock:

My big issue is that there’s no separation between Marriage and the other flirting, so it's very easy to assume that each option does essentially the same thing, especially after having tried all the others Instead, the highest actual ‘flirt’ is the going upstairs option and marriage is a very different option. Your charm has to be a certain level in order to succeed, but there’s no real indication of what that magic number might be other than a vague one from your friend (Violet/Seth).

In fact, the flirting starts off very mild and escalates with each option, requiring higher levels of charm to succeed. The reward for success (gain a charm point) remains the same while the chance for failure (more charm is required to succeed) and punishment for failure (lose a charm point) escalates.

So, my suggestions to improve this event are this:

1) Separate marriage from the other flirt options. I would think this would be very easy to do, and just a simple header of Flirting (wink, flutter, hankey, etc) and Propose (Marry them) would make it immediately obvious that marriage is different than flirting and might be more serious with different consequences from failure.

2) Make each stage of flirting progressively unlock the next stage. First you’ve got to wink and when you’ve done that successfully, you can flutter your eyelashes, and then drop your hanky, etc. It’s quite possible to build your charm up to the highest level, strut into the inn, and marry them immediately…which I feel is a bit unrealistic. Better to have to at least woo them a bit over a week (gifts can automatically bump you up to the next stage of woo’ing).

3) Flirting should be less hit or miss. Each flirt should be a chance to succeed, fail, or just have a neutral outcome. As it is, the first 3 flirts either succeed or have a neutral outcome (which isn’t so bad) and then others are succeed/fail. This is bad as there’s no direct indication of your chances. If you don’t have enough charm to succeed, you’ll always fail and always be punished for trying. I think it would be much better to have a failed flirt have a % chance of a punishment, weighted against your charm level. If you’re charm’s pretty close to the requirement, you should be less likely to lose charm for failing. Likewise if you’re charm is way too low for what you’re attempting, you should have a greater chance of losing a lot of charm.

4) Add one more level of feedback from your friend that indicates when you’ve exceeded the amount of charm you need to successfully propose. “Violet’s been asking me if I think you’re going to propose soon.” “Seth’s been trying to work up the nerve to propose to you.”

5) Add a confirmation stage after you click on the option to propose. Since this is such a radical change to your character (whether they succeed or fail) you should make it very clear that Marriage is a serious event. Give players one last chance to back out before they commit to it. If a player has to go through a confirmation step to do something, they’re much less likely to feel outrage if something bad happens (Well, that was my own fault) and it heightens the excitement you feel when you succeed (YAY! I took a risk and it paid off)

6) Don’t even present the option to propose marriage unless you’re at least somewhat close to meeting their requirements. If you’re nowhere near charming (charm isn’t at least half of the required level) enough to marry them, then clicking on the marriage link should give you a message that tells you “You know that Seth/Violet wouldn’t possibly marry you…yet.”

7) Consider another punishment for a refused proposal. No event in the game (other than death) should cause you to lose all your turns for the day. Being robbed of all your forest fights for exploring a link is really a bad precedent to set anywhere in the game and it’s one the player doesn’t forget…which makes them much less likely to explore other things in the game when they appear. Here are a few suggestions for alternate negative outcomes.
a. You immediately lose half your turns and then start each new day in Very Low Spirits for the next 3-5 days as you mope about. You’d end up losing more turns total overall, but it wouldn’t cause an immediate end to your game day.
b. You’re so upset by the rejection that you can’t stand to even go back into the inn for a few days. No drinks, no potions, no room, no killing people in their sleep.
c. You simply lose a lot of charm.

That’s my ideas, take them as you will. :D

JCP
08-10-2005, 08:36 PM
If players assume anything, that is their mistake.

1. No. Flirting leads to marriage. There is no need to make things obvious for players. If players cannot figure out that marriage is a lot more serious than flirting, well, then a different header isn't going to help them.

2. No. That would make it too easy. There needs to be some sort of challenge involved.

3. Flirting is based on your charm. Keep track of how your charm has been affected and you'll do just fine.

4. Again, no. There's no reason to spoonfeed you. Some games also let you see the exact number of your charm, which we don't.

5. No. Would you like a confirmation step after everything? Or just the significant things in the game. Players already complain about unnecessary steps as it is. Again, if you don't understand that marriage is a big step, you shouldn't have clicked on it in the first place.

6. No.

7. Why shouldn't there be events with consequences? And it's not severe at all if you do it at another time of day...

And gee, if you got this upset at marriage, please stay away from any special events - a lot worse can happen anywhere else in the game.

Having said that: do we want to code something different for the flirting? Sure, we just don't have the time at the moment. (Which is unfortunately something I end up writing a lot these days.)

SaucyWench
08-11-2005, 09:29 AM
As much as your suggestions are all appreciated, charm levels are an intentional mystery on Central. We think there are too many things that you can measure and factor into strategy without margin for error, so we purposely make charm-related things hidden. That includes the consequences.

Kendaer and I have started the unravelling process to allow you to (one day) flirt with someone other than Seth/Violet. The code involved here is interwoven with the core and is disgusting to seperate... suffice to say that there is no timeline for the completion at this stage. However, it's entirely possible that when I *do* do it, that different characters react differently because they have different personalities. ie, Violet might like her cheek being kissed, but Stephanie might prefer sweet nothings whispered in the ear, and you may need to try both, to see which works. At the moment, the flirting is just "try each in order, progressively" but there is no reason we can't make that more three dimensional later to add a bit of spice.

Nightwind
08-11-2005, 04:10 PM
because of how loosing your turns is sometimes abused, I would actually concider adding the locked out of inn penalty, in addition to the existing one...

but we all know I'm evil.

darkling
09-29-2005, 10:11 PM
me 2, i think that losing all of your forest fights should not happen, i think that you should be to in very low spirits for 2 or 3 game days and not be able to flirt with violet/seth until your good spirits return !

Furion
09-29-2005, 11:09 PM
:grins.

7 No's in a row. That's the Director we know and love. All business.

:ruffles JCP's hair before running and shouting over his shoulder, "He does a great job, doesn't he?"

PiRa
09-30-2005, 06:19 AM
/me blinks

First of all, there are other specials that cause your day to end abruptly while you sit around town square with nothing to do. Not only the 'asking Violet to marry you even before she knows your name' option. Yes, I tried that.

Okay, flirting can be difficult even here in a game (darn, and I thought I was going to get lucky) but I think it may be a bit harsh to write it off just because of one slip.

From what I've seen I'm guessing that there's a limit for how much charm you must have in order to flirt successfully and that there's a 'safety zone' where you have almost enough charm then nothing will happen. If you are very lacking, however, is a different story. So I'm thinking flirting isn't really a hit or miss kind of thing and the RNG spares us the pain.

Also, there *is* another very clear indication that you have enough charm to perhaps be a bit more daring with your flirts, and it's not by asking. All I can say is don't always try to jump to the next stage right away just because you succeeded in getting her phone numer (well, you get the point).

I got all this from 2 DKs of flirting with Violet and being happily married up until now. Still, please correct me if I'm wrong.